Gary Titley - "The EU Constitution In Terms We Can All Understand"
This is the text of a talk given by our Branch member Gary Titley, MEP, Leader of the British Labour Group in the European Parliament, at the Branch meeting on 2nd September 2004.
The Chair welcomed Branch member Gary Titley, MEP.
Gary began by saying that "Constitution" is only really a fancy name for another EU treaty. He explained that the Union's "rules" are set out in its various treaties and that there have been a number of these which have effectively amended the original Treaty of Rome. Some of the most notable ones are:
There are several less important ones plus a number of Accession treaties, approved when new countries join.
If you want to find out what the rules of the EU are you have to have all of these treaties. As each, beginning with the Maastricht Treaty, was negotiated there were issues that couldn't be agreed and these were eventually approved in subsequent treaties.
With so many factors overlapping and because there are so many treaties the working of the Union has become very complex. The original rules were drawn up for six members and, on the whole worked reasonably well, things became more difficult with fifteen members and now that there are twenty five there is a danger that the whole system may "grind to a halt".
For some time there has been a need to look again at the treaties. As the Union has begun to mature, the member states have thought that they should do more things together, e.g. the Euro, common foreign policy. In addition there is a need to decide for which issues the individual states should be responsible. We need to look at how, in the Union, we make decisions too. Instead of the Intergovernmental Conferences each year, where the Prime Ministers of the Member States come together in a rush and often don't get agreement, things should be done more slowly and thoroughly.
The Nice Treaty was very bad and after it a Convention was set up of the 15 members plus the 10 Accession States and representatives of the European and National parliaments. Their objective was to look at how things could be done better in future. There was a web-based consultation with EU citizens, a youth forum and a conference of interested bodies. The Convention arising from this was sent to member governments. Actually, there were some very tense issues, especially between the small and large member states (in the past Luxembourg had six MEPs, whereas Bolton, with a similar population, had part of Gary!). The big countries were worried about the tail wagging the dog and the smaller ones concerned at the possibility of being dominated by the larger states. Another problem was intergovernmental cooperation, preferred by the large countries but not by the smaller ones.
There was also disagreement about how much of the member states' sovereignty should be transferred to the Union. But initially, the new Treaty, or Constitution, wasn't completely supported. In some countries it's actually been under attack for not going far enough. In its first part the Constitution emphasises the supremacy of the Member States and, in the UK it has been accepted by the House of Lords.
It sets out the Union's values and objectives and the far right has objected to phrases such as "sustainable development", "exclusion" and "discrimination". It brings together all the existing treaties, sets them out and simplifies them in language which is more easily understandable. It puts down in black and white what the EU can do and what it cannot do. There are a few areas where only the Union can act, some where the Union and member states must work together and a third list of topics where it can only "support" the actions of the member states.
One of the big areas for discussion has been how decisions are made. Unanimous decision making was sometimes difficult when there were six members, almost impossible with 15 and totally impossible with 25. This lead to the development of so-called "qualified majority voting"; but there are some topics where it is necessary for there to be unanimity. In other words there is still the possibility for individual states to use a veto on certain subjects.
The Nice Treaty changed the balance of voting to one impossibly complex. Under the Constitution each State will have one vote but, to win a vote, you will have to have 55% of the votes, representing 65% of the population of the whole Union. This stops very small countries from having a disproportionate weight.
The EU has three principle parts:
When the EU had 15 members there were 20 Commissioners (the UK had two - Neil Kinnock and Chris Patten). In future each of the 25 States will have one Commissioner but that results in a far too large Commission (even 20 was really too large) and in 2014 the Commission will be reduced to 2/3 of its size (16.66 members??) with the small States having a rotation of Commissioners.
There will be a Charter of Fundamental Rights and the right, if a million signatures are gathered, for citizens to dictate to the Commission the action they must take on a particular subject. Additionally there will be big increase (from 34 to 70) of the areas in which the Parliament will be the decision making body.
At present the Presidency of the Union rotates every six months between the Member States. It's a very big job and very, very difficult for the small states. It's proposed that there will be a Chair (president) of the Council who will serve for 2½ years. The person will be the President or Chair of the Council of Ministers, not the President of the EU!
If 1/3 of the countries want to "go their own way" in a particular area they will be able to do so and there will be a clear right for Member States to leave the Union (there actually always has been and Greenland withdrew in 1986). There is a High Representative for Foreign Affairs (Javier Solana) who represents the Governments of the Member States. This person will be called the Foreign Minister and will represent the Council of Ministers.
If the Constitution is eventually agreed by all 25 member States it will then only be able to be amended by a unanimous vote. This is very, very unusual.
Much of what ill-informed people (egged on by right wing newspapers such as The Sun) object to is already in effect, e.g. European law already takes precedence over British law and this has always been the case since Britain joined the Union in the 60s.
If the new Treaty isn't ratified we will have to struggle on with the existing Treaties; but there is a great danger of the whole Union grinding to a halt.
Gary's talk was followed by questions and answers:
| John: | Must the Constitution itself be unanimously approved? |
| Gary: | Yes. |
| Craig: | Will the Euro become a "reserve currency"? |
| Gary: | Not because of the Constitution, but yes it could become one. |
| Bob: | Several countries, e.g. France and Germany are running high budget deficits and are not following the financial rules of the Union. What will be done about this? |
| Gary: | It's partly the case but again, will not be affected by the Constitution. It's true that some states are out of compliance with the European Stability Pact which, as members of the Euro-zone, they should be doing. There has been high unemployment in those countries for some time and this has exacerbated things. The new Commission will recommend greater flexibility in the Stability Pact to allow member states to deal with economic problems in their countries. |
| Bob: | There are still large state subsidies for some industries in several states, e.g. Air Italia and the situation in France is just as bad. |
| Gary: | Some countries have given temporary support to certain industries to avoid high unemployment but this has been done with the approval of the Commission. It has been allowed to enable those industries to undergo restructuring and make them self-sufficient in the future. |
| Bob: | The UK always obeys the rules of the EU and no-one else does. |
| Gary: | This isn't actually the case, although the Tory Party and our right wing press would like us to think it is. We are way behind the Nordic countries with compliance and there are plenty of examples of the UK not strictly following the rules. |
| Anne: | There seems to have been a major change in the last twelve months regarding how immigration officials deal with people travelling to and from the UK, bordering on racial discrimination. |
| Gary: | This is the UK's decision because it has insisted that it has an opt-out from the EU's freedom of movement policies and didn't sign the Schengen Accord. For this reason, UK citizens have to show passports when crossing borders. Gary admitted that there will, for sure, be racial prejudice amongst some immigration officials and said that this does cause problems. Again, this is not an issue that will be affected by the Constitution. |
| John: | There is no chance of the Constitution being approved because there are referenda in so many countries |
| Gary: | It will be difficult. In this country the referendum won't be won unless the government is bold and takes a lead and it hasn't done this on any European issues yet. |
| George: | If it was explained properly, wouldn't people vote for it? We have to be in the EU for economic reasons if nothing else and the EU has got to be made to work. Our only hope for the future is strength in unity. |
| Gary | The Constitution is like any other set of rules. It doesn't tell you what you must do; rather it enables you to do the things you want to do and lays out how you should do them. We spend too much time talking about how we should be doing things rather than what we should be doing. If this Constitution is agreed then we should "throw away the keys" for ten years and get on with the job of making the EU a successful economic and social block. |
| Paul: | The Poles were miffed because the Constitution doesn't specifically mention god but what about the rights to religious belief? |
| Gary: | They are protected. |
| Leilia: | If, in this country, the referendum goes against the Constitution what is the worst case scenario? |
| Gary: | The whole Union would gradually grind to a halt. If just one country rejects it then it could be that that country will eventually withdraw from the Union altogether. If several reject it then there could be a renegotiation. But other countries could go their own way, e.g. the Euro States. |
| Terry: | If the UK was to withdraw, could we rejoin at some time in the future? |
| Gary: | Well, we could eventually go back in but there would have to be a negotiated accession and, as a new Member State we would then have no opt-outs. |
| George: | There has to be hard hitting propaganda from the EU in favour of the Constitution. Tell people the truth and by-pass The Sun and Daily Express. |
| Paul: | There is a provision in the Constitution for consulting national parliaments. How will this be done? |
| Gary: | At present this isn't being done very well at all. Jack Straw has been doing a lot of work and there is an idea to have a Grand Committee to consider European legislation. There will be a huge psychological change in how the EU conducts itself and this will have to be reflected in the way that national parliaments look at European law. |
| Joyce: | There isn't enough publicity about what we here in Bolton get from Europe. This too needs to be addressed. |
| Gary: | There is a leaflet specifically on this and we do need to have more information. In Britain, because of Gordon Brown and the Euro, we aren't allowed to talk about Europe and the anti-Europeans have filled the void. The longer we leave it the more likely we are to lose the referendum. We really have to get on and start campaigning now. |
Graham thanked Gary for his extremely thorough, interesting and thought-provoking talk and for leading the discussion. He also thanked Alan and Joyce for the use of their home and for their hospitality and declared the meeting closed at 21:30.
Return to our Talks and Discussions page.